Revealing Our True Selves at Work: Being Non-Binary & Leading with Empathy with Maria Constantin

Get ready for the debut episode of the Real & Unapologetic podcast, where Monica and Maria talk about how we can navigate conversations around gender identity in our personal lives but also in the workplace. They fearlessly tackle the challenges that might arise when revealing our true selves to friends, family, managers, and coworkers.

Maria opens up about their personal journey of self-discovery and shares invaluable insights into their experience. They also provide practical steps that employers and individuals can take to create an inclusive, safe, and supportive environment for non-binary individuals. Brace yourself as they delve into the future of gender inclusion and acceptance in the workplace, not only in Romania (Maria's home country) but on a global scale. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking understanding and progress in the realm of gender identity.

Make sure to connect with Maria on Instagram @marstosirius42

And hey, don't forget to follow us on Instagram @getrealwithmonica and TikTok too @getrealwithmonica 

Transcript

Monica Calinescu: 0:03

Hey friends, and welcome to Real and unapologetic the podcast where we fearlessly dive into the unspoken side of mental health at work. I'm your host Monica, and I'm here to shed the light on topics that deserve the spotlight that often gets swept under the rug this rug from feeling like a fraud to dealing with anxiety, burnout, toxic behaviours, period, stigma, chronic illnesses, and embracing neurodiversity. No topic is off limits here. Our mission is clear, break the silence and challenge the stereotypes one conversation at a time. So make sure to join us every other Wednesday as we share our own stories, the highs, the lows and everything in between.

Unknown: 1:02

Hello, hi, Happy Pride Month, my friends, I'm so excited for you to listen to this special episode with Maria, the kindest, most generous and loving person I know. They're my best friend in the entire universe. So I am absolutely so grateful that they've given me the chance to record this episode with them. I'm still pinching myself that this podcast is finally out there. And on top of that, having the chance to record such a special episode with my best day like that's just beyond my wildest dreams. So in this episode, we talked about how we can navigate discussions around gender identity in our personal lives, but also in the workplace. And we also explored the challenges that might arise when revealing our true selves to friends, family managers, and co workers. As a non binary person. Maria has kindly shared with us their personal journey with their identity, how they realise they're non binary, and also laid down a few simple steps for for us, for employers and anyone to be honest, a few simple steps that we can take to create and foster an inclusive, safe and supportive environment for non binary people. We also talked about the future of gender inclusion and acceptance in the workplace, not only in Romania. So this is where Maria is from, but also on on a global scale as well. Maria is also the inclusion advisor and Community Manager at ELS and DNA, which is a nonprofit organisation based in Romania that fights against period poverty as someone who works in the corporate world. I was genuinely fascinated to learn more about the unique challenges that nonprofits face, particularly in a more conservative and religious country where there is a fundamental lack of sex education. So my friends without further ado, join me in giving the warmest welcome to Maria my bestie and get ready to be inspired. Trust me when I say this, this is an episode you won't want to miss. So let's dive in thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Maria Constantin: 3:42

Thank you for having me. This is great. I am so excited to have you here and meet you and I'm a bit nervous to be real and unapologetic with you.

Unknown: 3:49

Well, I'm a bit nervous too. So we're being real here. Well, I I really appreciate you coming here on the podcast to share some of your insights from your personal experience with having conversations on being non binary, especially in the workplace. But obviously, just to give the listeners a better understanding of how it actually used to be a non binary person, whether it's having these conversations in the workplace or just in the society that yeah, I'm really really excited to to record this episode with you. But before we get started, it is that time when we do the warm up questions. So I have I have a question for you. We're gonna start a bit light. How old were you when your mother said I love last time when did you get your first period? No, I'm joking. I'm joking. We're gonna start a bit light so can you please tell me what is your favourite song and why? Oh my god. You went there you went right there. Well, you should pick an English song right like something in English. On report is a Romanian song please go look it up. Oh my god my favourite song. I mean, it's usually it's never like one of your favourite bands is it it's just like a random song that pops into your head yeah. Ah Well currently I keep thinking of more Chiba enjoy the ride that song like just right off the bat makes me cry like a fucking baby it's it's a perfect song. It's so wholesome and beautiful and I'm glad I came up with the answer like straightaway. I love it. But yeah, I don't even need to listen to that song to just be like completely 100% Sure, it's like definitely one of my favourite songs. It is a great song. I don't know, when he was actually released. I remember I listened to it for the first time in 2015. And I love that absolute rate of death. I remember I was on the balcony when I was living back in Romania. And I literally like during the summer, I would always like go to sleep around like four o'clock in the morning or five o'clock in the morning. And I would listen to the song in in my headphones or whatever I was using back then. 2015 a day. Yeah. And I literally like it was so weird, because it would either make me really happy and grateful for what was going on at that time. Well, it would make me insanely sad. Yeah, that's exactly the thing because it depends entirely on your mood. Because it's just just enjoy the ride. But if the ride is not great, then you know, it's it's like a quick reminder that things will at some point get better. Maybe it reminds you of the times that that you were doing great. Yeah. I mean, it's heartbreaking in the video as well. Yeah, I remember I remember finding it in my first year of uni here in the UK. And I felt so alone, like, you know, in a different country like almost no one from back home. And yeah, it just it got me through some times, some times some times blank time. Okay, going to the next question. Okay. This is going to be something you're gonna really enjoy. So it's Formula One, it is Formula One. So you're a Formula One fan who you I've never watched this. So I have two questions the first one so let's say Formula One had the silly goofy season. If If so let's say we have the silly goofy seasons where drivers were supposed to swap teams randomly in a race amazing question. Which driver team combination would be the most hilarious to watch? Current grid? Oh my god, it has to be Yuki and it's either First up on or Alonso I think it'd be amazing. Yeah, that would be really amazing because of the finger wagging and thinking I'm thinking Fernando but I think you can max which is like, oh my god, we just go at each other like crazy. That will be fun to watch. Because Yuki swears a lot. Max is. Yeah, not the calmest person. I mean, it's understandable. It's a lot of pressure. Yeah, that'd be fun. I'd always say this might sound a bit toxic. I'm sorry. Don't cancel me. Max and George. Oh my god. Yes. Yeah, I'm not even gonna see Max and Louis I'm will not say that out loud. I said it I don't need okay apologise for putting this thought tag stay toxic No, but it's I think it's I think it's I'm gonna go for you can also cute your parent a cleric with I think with Louis. I think poor Baby shark needs someone call? And Lewis seems really calm. And I think Claire has been through enough. He just needs a break. Yeah, in the hug. And I don't know just moving too far. From Ferrari to Mercedes. And you have Lewis there and it's just in total. His talent. Yeah, yeah, we'll be he deserves it for like, I don't know one race a week. Total worth taking. Taking the cleric under his wing. baby's fine. You can cry now. Yeah, my second question for me. Formula One related if if the drivers were required to wear fancy costume while racing the bananas Yeah, so wait, wait. What kind of outfit with each would you choose? Well, yeah, that's that's what I'm going for. Like I can we need to see sharp in the banana suit again. Okay, that's a definite answer. And it would look great with a red car just like a McDonald's can I say? sponsored? Yeah, the fries are good. All of them. I have to pick up a fit for all of them. Oh, I mean, if you want to, oh my God, no, pick three drivers. Okay, so it's LeClaire banana. What about Verstappen oh my god this sweet baby Max. I want him in like a giant baby suit. For some reason I find that really it would satisfy me what we'd like a nappy and yeah, like but that the whole suit like a giant Baby. Oh baby the head as well, but he just needs to be a giant baby. Okay. I think people would look at him different, like, I think so too. Yeah, I think it would change things a little bit. I think it would make me really uncomfortable. Yeah, I think that's the point a little bit. That's what I'm going for the big year, but it will make a good race. Like I think he needs an extra challenge. So he doesn't get bored. Yeah, cuz he's already bored. He's a bit bored. We can tell he's bored. Yeah, understandable. Yeah. What about Louis because he's already doing his own like weekly fashion Fashion Week and brings the catwalk to them. Yeah. To the track. I think Louis would enjoy wearing a giant pride suit. I think so too, would like definitely go golf like slake? He would say yeah, look, he could pull it off. The only person who could pull that off I'm assuming and not look stupid. Yeah, like truest ally. He wears a pride flag more often than queer people. Like that's thank you for reminding me that I exist. true ally ship. Yeah, I'm kidding. Of course. Yeah. No, I think he would. I think it would really love that. And he loves making the statement. We know that. Yeah. So you know, just pride flag. three piece suit. Oh, three piece suit in my head. Yeah, I think I would just love to see them in the cooldown room or whatever. That's the cooldown. Yeah. Yeah. When they're like really sweaty and stuff and you see like Louis taking his suit off in the first step on podcast. Yes. Okay. What about Lando Norris? Oh my god, Lando. I want Lando to wear. Danny Rick mask and nothing else. He can wear underwear. That sounds amazing. I think he would love that. I think we all miss Danny Rick, and I think it would be a great homage. I do miss Danny rake actually. Yeah, I always liked him. Ghazi Oh my god. What about Gus Lee? Ah, should we go like for like cliche? Like friendship? Yeah. Like, my pocket. Like wins the race. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, the full leg with the the scarf around his neck and a berry instead of like, on top of his Craske. RASHOMON. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's so cute. Yeah, it'd be so cute. What about science? Chilli, if if Locklear is a giant banana, he's a giant chilli because he's hot because it's his thing. Okay, he's got the chilies everywhere because me the chills grab off. I love it. Do you want to pick another driver? Or should we move on to move away from the dress up moment? Polly Pocket? Adventure? Yeah, we can we can jump into the juicy stuff, the juicy stuff. Okay, so I know I've mentioned already before, that you are here to kindly share some of your personal experience with us. Can you tell us about so you're living you currently live in Romania? Luckily, luckily. Who? The one? Yeah. You did live in the UK briefly for a few years? I did. Yes. I did that study here for like, almost three semesters. And then I had to go back to Romania for mental health reasons. So that's great. Yeah. Well, not that great of an experience. Great. Mentally, TV, equipment, TV. But do you think I'm not sure if, obviously, if you want to share this, but when you were when you used to live in the UK that was back in like what 2016 2017 We lived in at the beginning of 2018. Yeah, yeah. Did you have any conversations around that time with people and disclosing you know, like, coming out and disclosing the fact that you're non binary? Well, that's the thing. I didn't know I was non binary back then. Okay. I figured it out. Like, a year later, I think, okay, like the silliest way possible. But I've always questioned my identity. Like, since I was 14, and you know, I don't know how to say but I think people can tell. It's like, it's like a what a vibe. I want to say vibe. But, you know, I've been I've been bullied a lot because of this because I've never fit into like my, my assigned gender. Like, you know, aesthetically. Yeah, I never presented myself very female ish. So a lot of people will be like, Oh, are you a boy or a girl? What's in your bed, you should wear makeup, you should wear heels. You should wear a dress and a skirt and so on a lot. So that would make me obviously will make me uncomfortable because I knew I had to be a pretty girl because that's what you're supposed to be you know, females you're supposed to be a pretty girl, but I never felt comfortable with it. So the back of my head there's always been like, like something ticking. So I've I went through different stages I went through like you know, I discovered Tumblr I discovered the fact that there are more gender identities then man woman boy girl like sis and then went beyond like, you know This and I thought, you know, maybe Demi girl, or genderless or agender gender fluid, because I've always like, you know, there's this again, again, with the vibes, the male and female vibe. we all we all have it like it's different proportions in all of us. amounts, let's say, but I've always felt like very more in the middle. Yeah. But it never sat right with me because I didn't feel like oh, today I'm a girl and today I'm a boy. But I didn't feel genderless either, because that's like the absence of perceiving a gender. I felt like I have a gender but it's mine. Like, it's my thing. You know, it's part of my identity, but it's not you cannot pinpointed. Yeah, and then I found out about the the term non binary, I read about it. And it didn't make a lot of sense. And of course, it didn't make a lot of sense because we are so used to this binary way of thinking like, this is male, this is female, it's football and blue. It's pink, and dresses and bows and stuff like that. And yes, of course, if you live like this your entire life, even if you read entire books and talk to thank you people, unless it clicks in your head, it's very hard to understand it fully, properly. So it did take me I think a couple more years or more, I think, actually, to figure it out that I'm what one on binary actually means. It just it's not something defined. It doesn't put you in a box necessarily. And it's just your own thing. Like, yeah, you do have traits that are generally associated with with women or with men, but it doesn't really matter, because you're your own person. And that's all that matters. And I think it's also it's hard because like growing up, I'm not sure if it's just because we grew up in Romania, where we didn't have we didn't have sex ed and we didn't have anything no one is actually, you know, no one took the time to sit down with us and be like, Hey, these are you know, the following gender identities? Where do you think you fit? Or you could have a different sexual orientation? Yeah, it's not. I mean, yeah, you have? Of course, you're correct. We have like nothing like this. We just stumbled upon it. Of course, I stumbled upon as I was saying, like, information of this kind on Tumblr, because I used to like search for rock bands, and then I somehow ended up in the queer community. Yeah, but that was luck. Yeah, could have just gone on Reddit. But it's also the thing that Romania being very, very patriarchal, it's in very split, because, okay, let's say we don't have sex ed, when there's nobody here to say, Hey, your genitalia does not determine your gender. You don't have to wear dresses, because you are female or anything like that. But the fact that I mean, of course, it's not only Romania, but it's a very, you know, still very conservative country. So we do tend to raise our kids in very gendered ways. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing, because if we just let kids be kids, then you will not be that hard. Like, yeah, oh, no, you are 1014 18 Whatever, you start maybe questioning your, your gender identity, or your orientation or anything. The binary notions are less ingrained in your head. So it's easier to undo, like unwrap the gift that we got from our parents from our society. So yeah, even the absence of extreme gendering would be would benefit everyone. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you probably you're probably helping other areas as well. You know, like when we talk about the fact that we don't have we want to get to increase the number of women in STEM for example, there is a reason why exactly a lot of women are not navigating towards pursuing a career in STEM for girls. For lady brains. Yes, yeah. Pink jobs and brown jobs. Yeah, I was about to mention the gender reveal parties as well like oh my god, no, please don't if you're planning one cancel it, please. Yes, please. It's damaging to everyone. And also like, I mean, okay, you don't have a gender reveal party but the desperation to find out the sex of your baby like why? How is that going to impact your life in any way? Like do you need to paint the room blue suddenly because it has the foetus has a penis Yeah, parenting Yeah, that's why me like it's so and going back to what you said you just stumbled upon something on Tumblr, Tumblr, of all places of all places. That's why me like I just I don't know if currently people learn about this in schools but I've I feel like they should I think there should be a lot more information available luckily now with us. Obviously it's only if you follow this, you know, certain pages, you do have access to information like this. But then again, maybe somewhere in the UK is easier to stumble upon this information. But if you're if you grow up in a non English speaking country, exactly. Like Romania, and you don't you don't speak English at all you barely understand it. It's so hard to find that information. I don't even know if we ever like I personally never heard of the term non binary in Romanian the first time I heard of the term, it was in English. Yeah, no, of course. I don't think there's anything like, yeah, you're 100%, right. Because I wasn't on Romanian Tumblr, obviously, where I found out about these things. Yeah, you're 100%, right. It's everything, everything that we get. In this area, let's say it's in English, mostly, like, at least in our bubble. People do translate things they do try to make the information more accessible. Like there's a lot of pages in Romania as well. But first of all, people make mistakes. Because translation errors, especially when using terms that are not not really popular in Romania, like Yeah, it's hard to define some things like it's nuanced. So sometimes it does more bad than good. That can go wrong, like very easily. I've seen a lot of like, guides, leaflets for organisations and stuff like that, and they just miss translate things. They misprint stuff, and it's gets confusing, especially if you don't have the basis already. And it's just like new information. And also, it shouldn't be up to people with an Instagram account to educate anyone. Yeah. Because yeah, like you said, like, nobody. I mean, if you hear something like, homosexuality is okay. In a school in Romania, that's, that stopped here. Yes, your education. But we don't really have an environment like we don't have a class. Where Where would they talk about that? Like the teachers, the professors? Yeah, they say that. Because there's like biology, you can barely talk about the reproductive system like we usually got. Yeah, I hope they don't skip it anymore. They used to skip it back in. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it would be so embarrassing to talk about this. Either you you make the boys leave the room and you talk to the girls, and then vice versa. That's great. Because nobody ever sees any other kind of genitalia their entire life, like just your own. Are they trying to make everyone gay? You know, that's, that's one option. Yeah. Yeah. There just hydrophobic. Oh, my God. I do have some questions about this. later on. But just to stick on this thing with being non binary and your experience? Would you be able to share with us a bit more about how have you navigated discussions in the past about being non binary, either with friends or in the workplace? And have you have you encountered any challenges or any? Not necessarily resistance, but like misconceptions from people when when you've shared that with them? Um, no, I have no, I mean, I'm so lucky to say that. Like, nobody really did anything, like majorly wrong. People forget sometimes, because that's what you find out after you start, you start coming out. That's exactly, yeah, never stop coming out. Like there's very few people who don't forget, either your gender identity or your orientation or stuff like that, like, and I don't blame anyone. Because I forget sometimes again, in Romania, where everything is very gendered, like down to language, like not having gender neutral pronouns like them, like in English. Yeah. It makes it very hard to stick to your gender identity, let's say, like, I remember, like, like, a month ago, I was on the street. And someone said, Yeah, you're passing by that girl. And I was like, this is this is constant. This is a constant thing. You go to the store Hi, lady. Hello, pretty girl and stuff like that, you know, the street are getting catcalling and everything. So it's, sometimes it's hard for me to remember so I don't blame the people who maybe forget at some point and call me man or lady like as a joke or something that the way my friends do. Name. But, ya know, I can't say that I've encountered any major issues like everyone I've told we're like, just cool. You know, because we are adults. We are used to these things in again, in our group, my close group, I don't think it's difficult for anyone to come to terms with this, like, okay, this person is non binary. Yeah, whatever, whatever the fuck, they just get it. They just use the pronouns. They do their best. That's, that's I'm very grateful for that. Do you think it's also a generational thing as well? I think so. Yeah. Because, like, I mean, there's plenty of tech talks on this, like, you know, when someone comes out and elder Millennials tend to be like, Oh my god. Oh, that's good for you. I love it. I loved it. I cannot believe I'm so proud of you. That's amazing. Well done you and I'm sure if you need support and like younger millennials and Gen Z and of course alphabet their their infants they were born yesterday. The rest the rest of us, the younger ones are really cool. Well done. I don't care. Get in line with the rest of us. We're still idiots. Yeah, no, I think that's great. I think the the fact that nobody really cares, it's, it's a great thing. Like, we don't need special treatment. We don't need to, like people walking on eggshells around us. It just hey, by the way, I'm non binary. Thank you for telling me like, that's tops. I've noticed that as well that it could be I'm not saying that everyone. Like I'm not saying that, Oh, if you're someone, you know, what an elder, millennial oragenics Automatically, you're gonna be like, Oh, my God, I cannot believe or understand what a non binary person is. But I think it's probably the fact that we we've got so much access to information compared to the older generations. But that's amazing that, you know, you've had these conversations, and luckily, people didn't have any unpleasant reactions, or made you feel uncomfortable for disclosing that. Because it unfortunately, no, I'm saying unfortunately, it's because we still live in a society where there's a lot of work that needs to be done. Like you said, if someone you know, we're staring, we're still in the process of making the fact that you can be gay, you could be a lesbian, you could be bisexual is fine. You could be pansexual. I don't know if people still understand this, what is what it is to be pansexual. But in your opinion, what steps should employers take to create a more inclusive workplace environment for people to feel comfortable to talk about this? Well, I think first of all, this is you know, it's good. If you even if you don't defend if you don't have like gender queer people in mind, let's say it's, we dumb it down a little bit. Yeah, to the average. I'm thinking I'm thinking in Romania, Romanian average Romanian workplace. Yeah. Like using inclusive language is, to me at least is like the way it makes the thing that makes me feel most accepted. Like the safest. If you say, person instead of man, slash woman, boy slash girl. It's pointless. First of all, like we all people, like, nobody should be offended to be called a person. Right? Yeah, we're all just people. And I just I noticed that talking to you, too. And to my friends, generally. Because once you start just saying person, and you realise, like the gender of the person you're talking about, doesn't matter. Like, it's, it's the same with, like, ethnicity, I think. Because we do that the way we talk with you just you don't need to mention someone's ethnicity unless it's like directly important to the story. Yeah. So why would gender be like you just say that person cut me off at the grocery store? Yeah, yes. No matter if it's a man or a woman or a non binary person who cut you off, like non binary people can be idiots as well. So yeah, I think using language that's as genderless as possible. You know, again, it's easier in English than you Romanian, but it's very important and putting your money where your mouth is, like, not doing things, just during pride month, just during inclusion, we can just doing Yeah, awareness week or something like that. Just if you say something, at least not say, if you don't mean like if you say yeah, we are looking to hire more women in this place of employment. But you just say because it sounds right, in sounds like the thing you should say. Yeah. And then you don't do it or you do it in like just half assed. Yeah, it shows it proves that your heart's not in it. So you don't understand exactly, you don't understand it. And it's a very vicious circle. Because if if you don't have a diverse team, then you're not going to know how to approach this. You're gonna do it maybe like 10% of what you should be doing and do it like maybe wrong, and it makes just a huge mess. You should listen to your employers like if you feel if someone feels open enough, like safe enough to disclose these things. Because I didn't used to do that like in my previous place of employment. I didn't tell anyone about my identity, my orientation anything. Why is that? Oh, because you just get the vibe that you will not be accepted like it was was a clothing store. It wasn't like was for everyone was men, women kids? Yeah, again with the the gendering of everything. society that we live in. Men upstairs women Yeah.